Kids and Crypto with Daniel Wang — Taiko Tuesday Special #2
A series of conversations with the bright minds at Taiko.
Welcome to the second edition of Taiko Tuesday Special! This is a series of conversations I’ll be having with the bright minds at Taiko.
In the second installment, I had the honor of talking with Daniel Wang, co-founder and CEO of Taiko. Daniel is best known for creating Loopring, the OG Ethereum ZK-rollup.
I talked with Daniel about a variety of things, including how he approaches his work-life balance, his work ethic, how he started Taiko, his experience at ETHGlobal Tokyo, and other topics.
Daniel is full of valuable insights, so I’m sure you’ll learn something new from this conversation. I know I did.
Without further ado, let’s dive in!
P.S. Read the first Taiko Tuesday Special with Matt Finestone here: Ethereum Rollup Evolution with Matt Finestone — Taiko Tuesday Special #1.
Daniel, I want to start with a personal question if I may. Back in November last year, you responded to Elon’s question on Twitter “What is best in life?” You said: “Kids and crypto.”
As a wannabe dad myself, I wanted to ask you this: How do you manage to find time for kids — or really anything outside of work for that matter — while being a CEO of a startup in of the craziest (in the good sense of the word) and fast-moving industries? Do you have a specific work ethic that you follow?
Thank you for asking this personal question. I completely understand the challenge of finding a balance between work and personal life, especially in the fast-paced and demanding world of startups and the crypto industry.
To address your question, I would say that achieving a work-life balance is essential, but I must admit that I’m somewhat of a workaholic. However, I’ve learned that it’s vital to make time for the things that truly matter in life, such as family and personal well-being. By prioritizing and setting boundaries, I can allocate time for both work and family.
Now, as for the connection between kids and crypto, I believe they both hold unimaginable potential. Children have the ability to learn, grow, and adapt, which makes them a constant source of inspiration and motivation. Similarly, the crypto industry is still relatively young, with limitless possibilities for growth and innovation. By recognizing and nurturing the potential in both my children and my work, I’m able to find a sense of fulfillment and purpose.
In terms of work ethic, I try to follow a few key principles:
1. Prioritize tasks: I set clear priorities for the day, focusing on tasks that align with my long-term goals, both personally and professionally.
2. Set boundaries: I establish boundaries for work and personal life, such as designated times for family or self-care activities, and I try to stick to them as much as possible.
3. Delegate and trust: I have a talented team that I can rely on, and I delegate tasks when appropriate, trusting them to handle their responsibilities effectively.
4. Continuous learning: I constantly strive to learn and grow, both in my professional and personal life, so that I can be a better leader, father, and partner.
By adhering to these principles, I’m able to manage my time more effectively and create a balance between my work and personal life. It’s not always easy, but it’s essential for long-term success and happiness.
Let’s talk about Taiko now. What was your thought process behind starting Taiko? What was the moment that it dawned on you that Ethereum needs a scaling solution that’s as similar to Ethereum as possible? This was obviously even before Vitalik published his ZK-EVM classification piece so I’m curious as to how it all started.
My thought process behind starting Taiko was driven by my observation of the current landscape of L2 solutions in the Ethereum ecosystem. I realized that none of the existing solutions were likely to replace Ethereum as the primary application layer. Some of these L2 options were too centralized, others had hidden incompatibilities, and many simply did not offer sufficient scaling capabilities.
The moment it dawned on me that Ethereum needed a scaling solution as similar to the original platform as possible was when I considered the long-term sustainability and growth of the ecosystem. I recognized that compatibility and decentralization were crucial aspects to ensure the continued success of Ethereum. I firmly believe in the concept of “develop once, deploy everywhere” as a guiding principle for Ethereum’s future.
Although Vitalik’s ZK-EVM classification piece had not yet been published at the time, my vision for Taiko was grounded in the belief that heterogeneous L2 solutions could collectively benefit Ethereum. By having multiple scaling options, the ecosystem would be more resilient, with no single point of failure.
Certainly, Taiko as a new L2 solution has its own set of design trade-offs. However, when combined with other L2s, we can effectively scale Ethereum and maintain its core principles of decentralization, security, and compatibility. In this way, Taiko aims to contribute to the overall robustness and growth of the Ethereum network, ensuring that developers can continue to “develop once, deploy everywhere” across the ecosystem.
There was an incident a few weeks ago where a project on another ZK-EVM network almost lost 921 ETH that got stuck in a smart contract due to the wrong usage of a certain function that’s supported on Ethereum but not on that network. You tweeted in response to the incident that we “need a type-1 ZK-EVM” (which Taiko obviously is) to mitigate such incidents.
Do you think we’ll see more similar incidents in the future? Can these situations be sort of a wake-up call for teams that are building heavily modified ZK-EVMs to move faster towards Ethereum equivalence?
The recent incident you mentioned highlights the challenges that we face in the blockchain and crypto space. It’s important to recognize that bugs and hacks are almost inevitable in complex software, especially during the early stages of development. These incidents should not be seen as evidence that a solution is not viable or not good enough.
For all L2 solutions that claim to be EVM or Ethereum equivalent, it’s crucial to have thorough documentation to prevent unexpected issues for developers. As a type-1 ZK-EVM, Taiko aims to minimize such surprises. However, we still need to ensure that all differences between our client specifications and Ethereum’s are well documented and communicated.
One of the benefits of being a type-1 solution is that Taiko can highly reuse the Ethereum client codebase, making it easier to identify bugs in circuits. Ethereum clients are well-tested and can serve as implementation oracles for Taiko’s circuits. This reduces the likelihood of similar incidents occurring in the future.
I believe that once type-1 solutions like Taiko are well implemented and tested, developers will start to abandon type-2 and other L2 solutions in favor of type-1. The recent events can indeed serve as a wake-up call for teams, demonstrating the importance of compatibility, documentation, and testing in ensuring the long-term success of the Ethereum ecosystem.
You’ve just returned from Tokyo where Taiko participated in the ETHGlobal Tokyo conference. From what I’ve seen, Taiko was one of the most popular projects there: The booth was always busy, talks and workshops crammed, and hackers eager to build on Taiko.
Has the time in Tokyo changed your perception of Ethereum and its broad community in any way? What are your main takeaways from Tokyo in general?
My recent trip to Tokyo for the ETHGlobal Tokyo conference was an enlightening and invigorating experience. The enthusiasm for Taiko was evident, with our booth always bustling, talks and workshops packed, and hackers eager to build on our platform. This experience reinforced my belief in the Ethereum community and its potential for continued growth and innovation.
One key takeaway from the conference was that developers are increasingly recognizing the need for a multiple-chain strategy. Ideally, they want to “develop once and deploy everywhere” across all EVM-compatible chains. Taiko’s main selling point is not about offering new features, but rather providing an experience that is almost identical to Ethereum. The developer community was highly receptive to this narrative.
Another important insight was the interest in Taiko’s “inception layers” concept. This approach allows dApps to own their layer-3s, positioning Taiko as not only an Ethereum L2 solution but also a multi-layer scalability solution for the Ethereum ecosystem.
Lastly, my time in Tokyo reaffirmed my belief in the talent and dedication of the Ethereum community. I observed that the core developers are focused on solving fundamental problems related to security and scalability, which is not always the case with other L1 platforms. This commitment to addressing fundamental challenges further strengthens my conviction in Ethereum’s long-term success and its ability to foster cutting-edge solutions like Taiko.
And finally, I know that many of Taiko team members met for the first time in Tokyo. What was it like to meet the people that you’ve worked with for months (and, in some cases, even years)?
Meeting the Taiko team members in Tokyo was an incredibly enriching experience. Firstly, it was a memorable moment to finally meet Brecht Devos, our co-founder and CTO, in person. We have been working together since 2017 at Loopring, and putting a face to the name truly deepened our professional relationship.
The Tokyo gathering also highlighted the importance of remote work, as it has become a significant trend in today’s world. There’s no going back, and we must adapt to this new reality. The best talents cannot be confined to one or two locations, and working remotely allows us to tap into a global pool of skilled individuals.
After meeting each other, our team has become better bonded emotionally, which I believe will improve communication and efficiency. This face-to-face interaction has given us a chance to strengthen our connections, which will translate into more effective collaboration.
In our pursuit of success, it’s essential to focus on three keywords: “Learn”, “Deliver”, and “Enjoy”. By continually learning and adapting, delivering results, and enjoying the process, our team can remain motivated, innovative, and committed to achieving our goals together.
Daniel, thank you for your time. Keep building and keep shipping — Ethereum needs you now more than ever!
Thanks for reading the second installment of Taiko Tuesday Special!
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Note: This newsletter is for educational purposes only and in no way constitutes financial, investment, or any other type of advice. Always do your own research before making financial decisions.